We Now Have DEFINITIVE Proof that Mark Shea Actually Supports Torture

I knew it! I knew it. I just knew it.

Even given all his florid protestations to the contrary, and all his glowing "at-a-boy!" praise for my own personal denunciation of torture notwithstanding, and in light of his constant grinding on literally anything that moves — if it has even the tiniest tincture of support for torture about it — all of Mark "Torture Is Eeeeeevil" Shea's claims about how he's all against torture and stuff have just gone up in smoke.

Gun smoke, that is.

And I seriously doubt the old dude on the floor was ever even Mirandized.

(Courtesy of the illustrious and slender Father Shane)

Nothing Ventured, Nothing Gained. Here's My Wish List

For those who might wish to help me acquire some of the tools I really need for my work in apologetics, my theological studies, etc., here is my Amazon "Wish List." God bless any of you who are feeling generous today!

And now, meet the other "Father Z"

For the last several years, I've been following with great interest the astonishing success that Father Zakaria Botros, a Coptic priest, has had in evangelizing the Muslim world — in Arabic, using the Koran. As an Arab, he understands the mindset that so many Muslims have toward Christianity, and he exploits that knowledge quite effectively, not by simply presenting the claims for the divinity of Christ, as an example. Rather, he firmly turns the tables on Muslim apologists by relentlessly critiquing and refuting their own claims, using mainly the Koran as his tool. The reports are, he is successfully converting large numbers of Muslims (albeit secretly, for fear of deadly reprisals from their erstwhile co-religionists), and this is causing a lot of consternation among many Muslims who see Father Z as a real threat to Muslim hegemony.

And they are right to think this.

We should all be praying for this courageous priest. For one thing, he is almost single-handedly evangelizing hundreds of millions of Muslims every day through his television program. Anyone in that situation needs a lot of prayer. As one would expect, his life is in danger because of his work. May the Lord bless and protect this worthy servant of His!

Visit the other Father Z's English website here and his Arabic site here. And, of course, the excellent Father Z we all know and love can still be found feeding the chickadees here.

Scripture Says "the Devil Is Like a Roaring Lion." Yes, and He's Also Like a Silent Owl

Nancy Gave Me My Christmas Present Early This Year

Whoever said Catholic apologetics isn't cool?

The all-new "PatMan Ultra-Glide Jet Pac" is a new addition to a steadily expanding array of of high-tech apologetics tools that I've been assembling for awhile. Sometimes, I just have to get somewhere in a hurry to debate a Protestant minister, thwart a pair of Mormon missionaries, or stymie a cadre of JWs.

That's just how I roll.

200,000 Christian Shoppers Are Wearing "It's OK to Wish Me A Merry Christmas" Buttons

There are plenty of creative and effective things Catholics and other Christians can do to push back against militant secularism, and this new button campaign is a good example. It's an overt way of publicly making an important point — i.e., Christmas is about Christmas, not some generic "holidays" — and you don't even have to open your mouth to do it. To be sure, wearing one of these buttons will likely lead to opportunities to speak verbally about this message, but even if no one queries (or challenges) you about it, they will read the message, and it will stick with them.

So, I say "bravo" to the people who came up with this idea. Let's have some more of this kind of stuff, just in time for the holid . . . I mean, for Christmas.

Over 200,000 shoppers are wearing buttons this Christmas season that proclaim a straightforward message to retailers: "It's OK, Wish Me A Merry Christmas(tm)." Individuals and churches around the country are partnering with the Wish Me A Merry Christmas Campaign mobilizing advocates energized for a return to the traditional, convivial greeting, bearing buttons that make a clear statement - "It's OK, Wish Me A Merry Christmas(tm) (www.wmamc.com)". Over 200,000 of these buttons have been distributed nationally.

With over 200,000 buttons on the streets and in stores this year, local store associates are likely to be presented with the opportunity to deviate from the corporate holiday wishing policy of top retailers like the Gap and Best Buy, and stealthily wish their customer "Merry Christmas" instead of the generic "Happy Holidays". But since 96% of Americans celebrate Christmas (Gallup Poll, 2004), it's likely that the store cashiers would prefer to wish their customers "Merry Christmas" as well. In fact 88% of Americans state that "It's okay to wish 'Merry Christmas'." (Gallup Poll). . . . (source)

This Russian Guy Can Rollerblade Better Than You -- Way Better Than You

My Advice to Catholic Parents: Don't Let Your Kids Date Non-Catholics

I know, this is hardly revolutionary or unique advice, but I was recently asked about this issue by a young Catholic man who called my "Open Line" radio show (heard every Thursday at 3:00 p.m. ET). He had been dating a devoutly Presbyterian girl, and her father didn't like it one bit that the guy was Catholic.

I think my response to his "what do I do now?" question may have surprise him. (It apparently surprised and even dismayed a few of my listeners, judging from some of the e-mails that came in after that show.)

My basic premise, which I advert to in this audio segment is that, more often than not, mixed marriages (i.e., when a Catholic marries a non-Catholic) are a recipe for serious problems down the road in that marriage. My advice to Catholic parents is, teach your children well the importance of finding a devoutly Catholic spouse. Eventually, if you haven't taught them this maxim and they, as a result, do not act on it, you will very likely see problems springing up in your extended family due to your sons and daughters being, in a certain sense, unequally yoked with non-Catholics. Word to the wise.

Take a listen . . . .

Here's a thurible to end all thuribles

This amazing video gives a whole new meaning to the phrase "in the line of fire." You definitely do not want to be standing in or near the path of this bad-boy censer. The way I see it, if you're going to incense the sanctuary of the house of the Lord, really, really incense it, like these priests do.

Unfortunately, a few tourist lookie-loos can be heard tittering in the background as this thurible gets going. But I have to think that even they were impressed by the majestic symbolism of the billowing incense pouring forth from this no-nonsense bowl of fire.

Elves are . . . weird

Hey, Remember the 60s? They're Coming Back on Campus

This time around, students aren't agitating on campus for a cause like civil-rights or anti-war. These UCLA students are hacked off because of money. Specifically, they don't like the fact that the school is planning to bump up their tuition rates by 32%.

But, but, what happened to all the fresh, youthful altruism that, at least ostensibly, fueled the 60s' student demonstrations? You mean these college students want to hang on to their (parent's) hard-earned money and not be required to fork it over to an institution that has the power to forcibly extract it from them?

Why, these kids are starting to sound like conservatives! (At least when it comes to money.)

Anglican Archbishop of Canterbury Urges the Pope to Change His Mind About Female Bishops

In related news, a junior-high science teacher in Dismal Seepage, Illinois, is urging the dean of the MIT science department to change his mind about the law of gravity.

The archbishop of Canterbury today pleaded with Roman Catholics to set aside their differences with Anglicans over the issue of female bishops, insisting there was more uniting the denominations than dividing them.

Rowan Williams was giving a lecture in Rome before Sunday's meeting with the pope, their first encounter since the Vatican's surprise announcement of a special institution for traditionalist Anglicans wanting to convert to Catholicism.

In his address at the Gregorian University, Williams said the Anglican communion was proof that churches could stay together in spite of their differences.

The communion has teetered on the edge of schism for nearly a decade over the issue of gay clergy but has retained a sliver of fellowship. Williams urged Roman Catholics to continue their 35-year dialogue with Anglicans in spite of theological and ideological divisions.

He said: "The various agreed statements of the churches stress that the church is a community, in which human beings are made sons and daughters of God.

"When so much agreement has been established in first-order matters about the identity and mission of the church, is it justifiable to treat other issues as equally vital for its health and integrity?"

Those issues included papal primacy, female clergy and the relations between the local and universal church in making decisions. "Is there a level of mutual recognition which allows a shared theological understanding

of primacy alongside a diversity of canonical and juridical arrangements?" he wondered

Williams challenged Roman Catholic thinking on female bishops, saying there was no proof that their ordination damaged the church.

For his part the "ecumenical glass" was "genuinely half-full". Catholics and Anglicans had achieved "striking" agreement on the broader questions. All that stood between them now were the "second order" issues of church organisation.

In an explicit but fleeting reference to the pope's move last month, Williams said it was an "imaginative pastoral response, but did not break any new ecclesiological ground." His speech was aimed at reviving dialogue between Anglicans and Catholics. But it also carried an implicit threat that there would be little point in continuing if the Catholic side continued to insist that the obstacles were insuperable.

Williams said: "The question is whether this unfinished business is quite as fundamental as our Roman Catholic friends believe."

He seemed tense, biting the sides of his fingers while he listened to the speaker who followed. His anxiety is understandable. . . . (continue reading)

Man discovers he's not a ninja after all

Ouch.

Did you know Hitler's propaganda machine tried to commandeer Christmas?

Neither did I. And that's why this article in today's Daily Mail online caught my eye and raised my eyebrows.

This insidious effort on the part of the Nazis to superimpose their own atheistic symbols and thought categories onto Christendom's ancient Christian symbols associated with the celebration of the Nativity of Christ was ultimately a failure, mainly because the Nazis were beaten by the Allies before this program of "re-education" could gain traction and take effect. But it is a good reminder that one of Hitler's prime directives was to do everything in his power to neutralize the Catholic Church, a force which he clearly understood to be the most formidable non-military obstacle standing in the way of the Reich's quest for total domination of Europe and beyond.

Well, happy holidays, Adolph. Your little scheme didn't work out the way you had planned, now did it?

P.S. Sadly, where Hitler failed, the modern Western media and merchandise complex has succeeded. But that's another post for another time.

Nazi Germany celebrated Christmas without Christ with the help of swastika tree baubles, 'Germanic' cookies and a host of manufactured traditions, a new exhibition has shown.

The way the celebration was gradually taken over and exploited for propaganda purposes by Hitler's Nazis is detailed in a new exhibition.

Rita Breuer has spent years scouring flea markets for old German Christmas ornaments.

She and her daughter Judith developed a fascination with the way Christmas was used by the atheist Nazis, who tried to turn it into a pagan winter solstice celebration.

Selected objects from the family's enormous collection have gone on show at the National Socialism Documentation Centre in Cologne.

'Christmas was a provocation for the Nazis - after all, the baby Jesus was a Jewish child,' Judith Breuer told the German newspaper Spiegel. 'The most important celebration in the year didn't fit with their racist beliefs so they had to react, by trying to make it less Christian.'

The exhibition includes swastika-shaped cookie-cutters and Christmas tree baubles shaped like Iron Cross medals.

The Nazis attempted to persuade housewives to bake cookies in the shape of swastikas, and they replaced the Christian figure of Saint Nicholas, who traditionally brings German children treats on December 6, with the Norse god Odin.

The symbol that posed a particular problem for the Nazis was the star, which traditionally decorates Christmas trees. . . . (continue reading)

"My Name Is Luka" Redux

First, refresh your memory as to the original:

Now, listen to this:

Some words of encouragement for those who predict the imminent end of the world

“When you wish upon a falling star, your dreams can come true. Unless it's really a meteorite hurtling to the Earth which will destroy all life. Then you're pretty much hosed no matter what you wish for. Unless it's death by meteor.”

— Despair.com

In Praise of Bacon

You know this is true. You know it. Don't lie.

Nihilist thought for the day: Nothing really matress

Even when misspelled, it is still true.

Here's a Bible Verse You'll Never See Cross-stitched on a Pillow

Just when you think you've solved a problem, along comes a bigger one

You know the old saying, "One step forward, three steps backward"? Well, this video is a good example of "one step forward, 1000 steps backward."

One priest per Dublin parish shortly, archbishop warns

Ireland, once a mighty powerhouse of priestly vocations, sent men by the thousands to the United States, Canada, and elsewhere to help build the Church here, over the last 150 years. But the Emerald Isle is now struggling just to ordain enough priests to meet its own ever-dwindling church-going Catholic population.

What has shut off the firehose of Irish vocations to the priesthood in Ireland? My guess is that it is the steadily tightening grip of secularism and indifferentism that have coiled around the Irish so unremittingly in the post-War era, as well as the terrible sex-scandals with men, women, and children involving Irish priests and even bishops which have soured so many in their view of the priesthood. What can be done, short of a miracle, to reverse this trend? I have no idea, but I am praying for a miracle.

The Irish Times reports:

DUBLIN’S CATHOLIC archdiocese will soon have barely enough priests to serve its 199 parishes, Archbishop Diarmuid Martin has said.“We have 46 priests over 80 and only two less than 35 years of age. In a very short time we will just have the bare number of priests required to have one active priest for each of our 199 parishes,” he said in Dublin’s pro-cathedral at the weekend.

He was speaking at a Mass on Saturday to celebrate the feast of St Lawrence O’Toole, principal patron of the Dublin Catholic archdiocese, of which he was archbishop from 1162 until 1180. Last April Archbishop Martin said there were now 10 times more priests over 70 than under 40 in the archdiocese.

In April also it emerged that the number of priests in Tuam Catholic archdiocese is set to fall by 30 per cent over the next four years, leaving most parishes there with just one resident priest. . . . (continue reading)

A Caller to My "Open Line" Radio Show Asks Me About the "Good Fruits" of Medjugorje

A call came in recently from a woman who wanted to remind me about all the "good fruits" associated with the alleged Marian apparitions at Medjugorje. You know, the thousands of confessions and conversions, rosaries and other prayers prayed, and even numerous priestly vocations which are attributed to men having made a pilgrimage there.

Well . . . I don't deny that there are good "fruits" associated with Medjugorje, but even so, I am strongly disinclined to believe that it is the site of authentic Marian apparitions. And, as I explained to the caller, I personally do not agree that the "good fruit" argument constitutes proof of its authenticity.

The Medjugorje issue comes up from time to time on my "Open Line" show, and the fact that I am skeptical about this alleged apparition seems to perplex and, at times, irritate some of my listeners. I surely do not mean to irritate them! But I feel obliged to give my honest opinion when callers ask me about it. Take a listen.

Bahamian Archbishop Speaks Out on Sexual Sins Within Marriage

Kevin Knowles, at the "Catholicism in the Bahamas" blog, reports:

The Archdiocese of Nassau, Bahamas, has come out in support of legislature to deal with marital rape.

“To the extent that the proposed legislation seeks to address the unfortunate reality of marital rape and in the measure that it seeks to preserve the dignity of every person and to safeguard marriage as a covenant of life and love between a man and woman, the Catholic Church offers its prayerful support”, reads an August 27 statement from Archbishop Patrick Pinder on the Sexual Offences (Amendment) Bill 2009.

Giving the Church’s perspective, Archbishop Pinder said God created man and woman in such a way that through their bodies “it would be self-evident that they are called to love and give themselves to one another in the gift of marriage”, a sacrament according to the Catholic understanding. “By its nature, then, marriage is an intimate union of life and love.” . . . (continue reading)

Spanish Bishop: Catholic Pols Who Vote for Abortion Excommunicate Themselves

Here's more good and encouraging news from the episcopal front, this time coming from Spain, where the Catholic bishops there are girding for battle with the country's leftist, pro-abortion government.

When Nancy and I were most recently in Spain, for two weeks in September, I spoke at length with as many Spaniards as I could about what they see happening in the Church over there. In addition to their general pessimism about how apathetic most Spanish Catholics tend to be about the Faith, they also seemed very heartened by the muscular efforts many Spanish bishops, priests, and laypeople have been making recently to publicly speak out in defense of unborn children against the country's pro-abortion laws.

One priest in Valencia, with whom I had two-hour conversation about the state of the Church there, lamented that the vast majority of Spaniards are at best only culturally Catholic. "During the week," he said, "they work to make money so that on the weekend, they can spend their time drinking, having sex, watching sports, and being entertained."

I guess he'd know what he's talking about, because, as one of the canons of the cathedral of Valencia, he hears confessions and observes what's going on around him. He added, though, that the abortion issue and the Spanish Government's efforts to ramrod even more legislation to promote abortion is steadily having a positive effect on a growing number of Spanish Catholics who, even if many of them are still tepid in the practice of their Faith, are beginning to wake up and smell the paella and recognize that they have to start fighting the good fight if they don't want to see their country go completely into spiritual ruin. Viva España!

MADRID, November 13, 2009 (LifeSiteNews.com) - The secretary general of the Spanish bishops' conference, Auxiliary Bishop Juan Antonio Martinez Camino of Madrid, warned that Spanish Catholic legislators who vote in favor of a bill to liberalize abortion which is currently before parliament would publicly place themselves in an "objective state of sin" and therefore may not receive Communion.

"Excommunication is provided in the Code of Canon Law for those who cooperate actively in the practice of abortion," Bishop Martinez Camino stated in an AFP report.

He said Catholics cannot support the legalization of abortion and if they do "they will objectively find themselves in a public state of sin and may not be admitted to Holy Communion."

While "the Church cannot judge their subjectivity," he added, those who "directly collaborate" in or promote abortion incur excommunication.

At the same time, Bishop Martinez Camino said the Church reaches out to women who have had an abortion or who are tempted to abort.

Encouraging those who have aborted to receive the Sacrament of Reconciliation, he said, "Those who have not gone to confession are encouraged to do so because God wants to offer them a solution and deep peace." . . . (continue reading)

The Groveler in Chief Does it Again

(Dear Leader makes his obeisance to the Emperor of Japan.)

Isn't there some kind of charm school where men who've been elected president should go for at least a few weeks of tutoring in the basic dos and don'ts of being President of the United States? Apparently not, but there certainly should be such mandatory training so that this kind of silliness doesn't happen when the guy gets into office and embarrasses the country, the way Dear Leader has a knack of doing. Doesn't anyone coach him on what to do and not to do as head of state? Anyone? Please?

(And for those who will be quick to point out that in Japan they bow to greet one another, I know that. I've been to Japan many times and am familiar with their customs. But, as I see it, this incident is not one of "when in Rome, do as the Romans.")

(Courtesy of the Drudge Report)

Catholic Radio Is Coming On Strong Across the Country -- Take a Listen . . .

Catholic radio is expanding rapidly across the country, and it's very gratifying to see how many good things are happening — in particular conversions to the Catholic Church — that result when Catholic radio starts up in a given locale. A new station in the Immaculate Heart Radio network has gone live recently in Salt Lake City, blanketing most of the State of Utah, and another large station will go live in December, booming across the metro Phoenix area with 24/7 Catholic programming.

In addition to the many Catholics in Arizona who will be tuning in, you can be sure that there are also certain non-Catholic critics of the Church who will also no doubt be "closely monitoring" the Catholic airwaves once the new station gets up and running. That will make my job as host of the Thursday edition of EWTN's "Open Line" show that much more enjoyable. ("Open Line" airs each Thursday at 3:00 p.m. ET.)

Doug Sherman, president of Immaculate Heart Radio, estimates that upwards of 150 new stations may be going live next year across the U.S.

Yowza.

One of the leading shows, carried on virtually all Catholic stations, is the "Catholic Answers Live" program. I was on it last week, fielding questions for an hour. Among the various topics we covered was a call on whether God loves everyone, something that relates to a central error in the Calvinist religious system. Take a listen . . .

St. Louis Archbishop Carlson Now Under Media Attack

I'll tell you what. I am stoked to see the new wave of American bishops taking courageous, articulate, and effective public stands against evil in its many forms. This is exactly what the Heavenly Doctor ordered (John 10:11-15), and it's something I haven't seen, at least not like this, not in such numbers, in my nearly 50 years of being Catholic. Thank God Almighty that more and more of our bishops are standing up like men to fight the good fight. May the Lord strengthen them!

Those thoughts were prompted by an article I saw just now at the St. Louis Catholic Blog which details how the media has now turned its guns on Archbishop Robert Carlson of St. Louis because of his efforts to rally resistance to uphold and defend the traditional understanding of marriage (i.e., one man and one woman).

Archbishop Robert J. Carlson [is under attack] for donating to the effort to uphold traditional marriage in Maine. This successful effort defeated a ballot initiative that would have allowed couples to pretend that living in a sodomitical relationship is the same as marriage, with all of the attendant legal rights and obligations thereof.

Tim Townsend has the story at STLToday. He attempts to paint the Church in a bad light by juxtaposing this donation against the layoffs this summer at Catholic Charities:

_____________________

The St. Louis Archdiocese released the following statement to the Post-Dispatch:

In June of this year, Archbishop Richard Malone of Portland, Maine sent a letter to all U.S. bishops asking for financial support for issues the church considers to be moral issues. Archbishop Robert J. Carlson approved a donation for $10,000 which was charged to the special needs fund. This fund has traditionally been the archbishop’s for discretionary spending, not for formal operations, and is funded by private gifts. These funds were already available when Archbishop Carlson arrived in St. Louis. Archbishops of St. Louis have made donations in the past to help other dioceses around the world for various causes ranging from disaster relief, to pro-life issues.

Carlson was installed on June 10. The contribution from the St. Louis Archdiocese was received by the Portland diocese on July 16.

Less than a month earlier, on June 22, the archdiocese eliminated four positions at Catholic Charities, the largest private provider of social services in Missouri. Catholic Charities president, Monsignor Mark Ullrich said at the time that the job cuts were “due to our need to economically downsize.”

The archdiocese has been stung by the struggling economy. In January, it eliminated 25 part-time and full-time positions - representing 6 percent of the jobs within its administrative and educational offices, not including Catholic Charities. Last November, the archdiocese said its revenue had dropped 37 percent because of decreases in investment income and contributions.

________________________

See, the insinuation here is that the Archdiocese is either lying about the reasons for the layoffs, or else is willing to spend money to discriminate against homosexuals but won't spend money to help the poor. A pretty lame effort, even for the Post-Dispatch.

Please Pray for My Little Grandson, Killian Patrick

Many of you have been following the saga of Killian's premature birth almost a month ago. He was born three months early, but he's been improving, little by little, ever since. There is, however, a major new setback the little man has to face: surgery today, starting at 2:00 p.m. ET. In other words, he is in surgery right now, as I post this.

My son Timothy has posted updates on Killian on his blog with an explanation of what this surgery entails.

Everyone in the Madrid family would be profoundly grateful to any of you who would stop what you are doing right now and say some fervent prayers for Killian. Thank you.

London Calling

The clash between what the Mormon Church teaches and what some Mormons think it teaches can be a curious thing to observe. Case in point: "Richard from London" called my Open Line radio show last week to berate me for my critical comments on an earlier show regarding Mormon theology.

Richard identified himself as a former Catholic who converted to the Mormon Church, largely, he said, due to the many "disturbing" chapters in Catholic history. I pointed out that, whatever good or bad things Catholics have done over the centuries (and, to be sure, there are innumerable examples of Catholics doing both), none of it is at all relevant to the truth claims made by the Mormon Church.

Once of those claims which the Mormon Church has made (one which, understandably, Richard denied), through the teachings of Joseph Smith and Brigham Young, as well as official LDS scripture, is that God "cursed" certain people by changing their skin color from white to black and, in some cases, brown — an issue I had discussed with a different caller on an earlier show. Take a listen and see what you think.

Regarding the larger question of whether or not the Mormon Church did/does, in fact, officially teach the doctrine that God has cursed certain people by making them black or brown, I wrote an article addressing this issue in This Rock magazine, back in 1991, in response to a similar line of argumentation from another Mormon who was very squeamish about this issue being brought up. I wrote:

As for the question about racism in the doctrines and practices of the Mormon Church, your indignant comments fly in the face of the facts. For the last century and a half the Mormon Church has preached a message of racial inequality based on the theory that God has "cursed" certain people with dark skin. As you well know, this curse applies both to blacks and those of "Lamanite" descent, although for different reasons. To make my point I'll focus just on the Lamanites.

THE BOOK of Mormon says God "cursed" the Lamanites (whom Joseph Smith alleged were originally white-skinned Palestinian Jews from the family of Laman, son of Lehi, who settled in the New World around the year 600 B.C.) in retaliation for their sins by turning them into Indians with dark skin and hair (1 Nephi 12:23; 2 Nephi 5:21-24; Jacob 3:3-5; Alma 3:6; Mormon 5:15).

The Mormon Church teaches that the Lamanites were the forerunners of North American Indians as well as of Mexicans and other Latin Americans. These are described in the Book of Mormon in unflattering terms: "dark," "filthy," "abominable," "loathsome," "idle," "wicked," "sorely cursed with skins of darkness," and "beyond the description of that which hath ever been amongst us."

If this weren't enough to demonstrate that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints teaches that certain races are inferior because of the color of their skin (isn't that the definition of racism?), please recall that the Book of Mormon repeatedly emphasizes the notion that white skin is "pure and delightsome" and that brown skin is "filthy and loathsome."

TO BE FAIR, I should mention that the Mormon Church does hold out hope to Indians, Mexicans, and all those who have been tainted by the Lamanite curse. The Book of Mormon explains that "Lamanitish" people who accept the Mormon gospel can hope to have their skins turned white.

In Jacob 3:8 the white-skinned Nephites are warned about the wages of sin: "O my brethren, I fear that unless ye shall repent of your sins that their [the Lamanites'] skins will be whiter than yours, when ye shall be brought with them before the throne of God." If you need more convincing about this issue see also 3 Nephi 2:15, 2 Nephi 30:6, and Alma 23:18.

Notice that I quote from the Book of Mormon--I'm not sneaking in "obscure comments," although I could have quoted zillions of 'em, and you know it, from "obscure" Mormon leaders such as the prophets Joseph Smith and Brigham Young, plus Bruce R. McConkie and Mark E. Peterson, both former members of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles.

Truth or consequences, Robert. Do you believe God "cursed" people by giving them dark skin, or don't you? The ramifications of your answer seem agonizingly clear: If you don't believe it, you deny an explicit teaching of the Book of Mormon and over 150 years of official Mormon doctrine promulgated by prophets, apostles, and general authorities. If you do believe God curses some people with dark skin, you'll have a hard time convincing people Mormon theology isn't racist. . . . (continue reading)